Here's what I know about who from the world of Ingress is going to be at the upcoming #13MAGNUSReawakens Anomalies...
Here's what I know about who from the world of Ingress is going to be at the upcoming #13MAGNUSReawakens Anomalies...
http://investigate.ingress.com/2017/08/23/where-and-why-whos-going-to-the-anomalies/
http://investigate.ingress.com/2017/08/23/where-and-why-whos-going-to-the-anomalies/
Akira Tsukasa and IQTech idea to trap an Exogenous and make it work for them is so full of hubris...
ReplyDeleteWho comes to Basel..... ???
ReplyDeleteSo Basel is of no interest?
ReplyDeleteBe careful in Portland, PAC. We don't want you getting in the way of Akira's research or any of her plans. I have a feeling that Akira is after Misty Hannah. I wonder where Agent KodamaSmiles will be. Since she is trying to bring the Ingress Report back online in Susanna Moyer's absence.
ReplyDeleteAll of you, Hank Johnson, H. Richard Loeb, Akira Tsukasa, and Agent KodamaSmiles, please be safe, and be careful.
I look forward to seeing you again H. Richard Loeb ! I hope you will get around to seeing the Navarro portals again! Maybe even Akira Tsukasa will be able to interact with them as well.
ReplyDeleteInteresting words Prathamesh Adsul we will see what this weekend holds.
ReplyDeleteI tried as much as possible to keep me up-to-date about the possible scenarios that will be presented, thanks to the Misty Hannah plan to evoke on our Dimensional Node of Exogenous Intelligences (EI), yet I can not understand fully.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the Trickster intends to use energy catalyzed by the abnormal events of the Q3 #13Magnus Reawakens segment.
Yet, there is, and was declared, a Q4 segment, which will appear on ORW on November 4th, and December, 2nd.
Are these expected XM Anomalies events in the Q4 segment likely to be due to acclimatization on our Dimensional Node for the Intelligence recalled by Hannah? (Also if she intend cointain "it" into her MindPalace)
Or is it something contingent on the action of IQTech?
If indeed Akira Tsukasa will be able to study and copy what Misty will do, then will she and the corporation for which she is working possibly be able to summon an EI too?
Or, alternatively, produce weapons - just as it did for UltraStrikes, able to interact directly with these entities, to the point of damaging them, if necessary?
Personally, I do not find the idea of opening our doors to the knowledge of the other, the alien, but I am always aware that our first interest - and duty - is to safeguard human race and humanity, which must be in the position to freely choose about its future - and not forced on an accelerated evolution path, or necessarily deployed on a warfronts and a warpath that we do not know in an outbreak war of which - it seems - we could become the main actors.
(If, in fact, Shapers and N'zeer were able to interact - even violently - efficiently among themselves, they would not be right to communicate with us so massively, stimulating us to grown, to change, to consider technology as a source of salvation , equilibrium, and so on. )
This passage is another important point in the investigations that MUST be made: WHY the human race is so important to the Exogenous.
What can we do, that they cannot, and so that attracts them towards us?
Edgar Allan Wright H. Richard Loeb
Daeniem Loidlan Just for fun I'm going to play Devil's advocate here.
ReplyDelete1) You speak of the importance of freedom of choice. What if humans were not advanced and intelligent enough to make the best decisions? Parents do make decisions for their children until they are ready to do so. Would it be so wrong for a far more advanced society to be our mentors?
2) You ask why humans are important to the"Exogenous". What if we aren't? Humans, after all, do study other animals. We even help them and have even tried to teach apes, with mixed results, how to use language.
en.wikipedia.org - Great ape language - Wikipedia
Raphaël Lesage nice points. First moment Im free to follow you properly, i will on this. Thanks for the hints
ReplyDeleteedit.
So, here i'm.
Raphaël Lesage
Surely, the consideration that our level of "importance" for exogenous intelligences is oversized is sensational.
We could - well, just be a subject of study. And the choice to put the whole glossary and phrasebook of the glyphs under our nose is nothing more than an experiment to test us.
Regarding your first question: How can we make a decision if the human race is not yet "adult" enough to be able to do so?
Parents who make decisions for the good of their children have in common with their children to be part of the same breed of the same culture, and in every case look for the good of their offspring because it will be their future - genetic, about their traditions.
Regarding us, we have intelligences that are DEFINED as external, alien to our Dimension Node, who want to stimulate us through "impulsive" impulse through exotic matter directly on our minds.
This is not what a parent would do.
One parent, while making decisions for small children, explains to them, guides them, with the times that the little ones have.
He does not try to force his hand, or conscience, to grow "to command".
Whatever the xm is "designed" and "programmed" to do. It moves human consciences by turning them to thoughts and impulses that, perhaps, they would never elaborate unless under that constraint.
Daeniem Loidlan, I have to politely disagree.
ReplyDeleteYou claim parents and children is not a correct comparison because parents would act in good faith in order to pass their genes and traditions to their children. However, some parents adopt. Does it mean only culture and traditions matter?
In that case, couldn't Exogenous intelligences also want to pass a part of their "culture" or "values" to us and thus be good mentors?
Secondly, you claim using XM to stimulate us isn't right. Isn't it slightly akin to stimulating children through education, educative activities or imposing nutritious food? A stimulating environment will yield children that are more successful later on. Couldn't XM be a safe stimulus for humans in order for our civilization to be more successful later on?
And it is true we might never have had certain ideas or behaviors without XM around us. However, children wouldn't behave the same in a group without adults imposing a way of behaving. What if we were the children here?
Finally, maybe seeing us as children is too generous. Perhaps we are just pets learning a few tricks. Although, a whole planet as a pet is something I find improbable.
Raphaël Lesage
ReplyDelete[...]Does it mean only culture and traditions matter?[...]
Nope, these are not the only things that count.
In any case, however, parents and children belong in any case to the same "species". Always of the human race we are talking about.
To the contrary, or to verify the data, or to its falsification - whatever the criterion we prefer to adopt - exogenous intelligences are not part of the human race.
I do not therefore consider that the interest for us motivated by "for our good as a human race" can be fully valid.
[...]Couldn't XM be a safe stimulus for humans in order for our civilization to be more successful later on?[...]
I find the question posed in a mischievous way. I say, of course, with no controversial intent.
I'm going to explain.
Education is a cognitive process of transition between two agents - teacher and learner - who are actively involved in the process, interdependent.
At any time, a series of feedbacks can be given by both participants in the educational process to interrupt, modify, amplify, diminish, etc.
The stimulation of the abilities, perceptions and human interests through Xm is of the same type as that produced by pharmacological or chemical administration; It is not possible to define it as a "do ut des" situation, just as it would be imparted education, because - in my view and the positions I am going to defend - it is not possible to oppose the acquisition of the Mind Units when The fields are created.
People below the fields are quite challenging for the specific faction that created the field.
[...]What if we were the children here?[...]
Just as a group of children left alone to themselves - I think in a rather instant sense the experience told in "Lord of the Flies" - would find their way for attempts and mistakes.
The problem I face in this opposition is that it is trying to coexist the concept of freedom with the good one, but these two paths are something that can be absolutely divergent.
I'm not saying that the humanity left free to decide for its own future will ALWAYS act for GOOD. Rather.
Most often, the private freedom of a strong social sense degenerates into freedom for few and slavery for many.
Yet, being forced to do something - how to evolve - against your own will is not something just as unfair?
The human race is unable to fully internalize and apply the concept of "common good" or "superior good". We are a genius of selfish animals, for the most part - and even when we do not realize it, our unconscious actions always push us to self-preservation, self-realization at the expense of the other. (Hobbes summarized this point of view with the motto "homo homini lupus", man is wolf for the other man.)
I maintain that the human race must be left, free from external constraints - which are not from the point of improving the race itself - to find its way.
What the influence of an exogenous race / intelligence can not afford, in any case.
By fishing in contemporary sci-fi, the Star Trek Planet Federation imposed the first directive "forbidding to interfere in the natural development of a civilization or the internal affairs of a government of another planet until it has developed the technology of the Interstellar journeys. "
In the example of talking about interstellar travel to indicate the point of achieving equality between the parties.
The human race, with regard to Shapers or N'zeer, should gain full mastery of the Dimension Nodes theory, abnormal zones, and the many capabilities of Exotic matter.
[...]_Finally, maybe seeing us as children is too generous. Perhaps we are just pets learning a few tricks. _[...]
And just following this statement I think: an exogenous race that thinks is useful (?), delightful (?), funny (?) to relate to another clever race - albeit less progressed - teaching "tricks" dont show signs of a lack of good faith?
ReplyDeleteDaeniem Loidlan
ReplyDelete1) I guess we won't fully agree on the first point discussed. Being part of the same species doesn't seem important to me. Humans can care about other animals.
There is also this idea that I have about sharing values and culture. Perhaps the Shapers are a dying civilization and want to preserve some of their knowledge and values as an adoptive parent would.
Perhaps we are also too agressive and show potential to be dangerous in the future. Instead of destroying our civilization, they could be trying to shape us to be more collaborative.
2) As for being left to our own as the better alternative and the Star Trek reference, a part of me would prefer it. Don't we all have the urge to prove our worth?
However, since when have the Shapers influenced us? I think the Shapers can be compared to 2001 A Space Odyssey and the monolith. Here, a far more advanced alien civilization shaped humans to a certain extent. What if what we consider freedom and human is actually "shaped behavior?"
There is also the risk that cutting all ties to the Shapers would bring negative consequences. Would we stagnate as a species?
Of course, there is also the possibility that our goal is to eventually leave the Shapers as children leave their home in order to pursue their own destiny.
3) As for the final point regarding seing us as pets being taught tricks, you are of course right. The problem is we don't know. Truth be told, picking any of the two sides could be bad for us.
For instance:
Pro Shapers
Positive: Humans get a better life
Negative: Humans risk not achieving their true nature or potential.
Pro Resistance:
Positive: Humans have complete freedom
Negative: Humans might not have what it takes to improve their lives further. Also, humans might then be seen as a rebellious and dangerous species that should be anhihilated.
So in the end, perhaps there is no correct choice.
Raphaël Lesage
ReplyDelete1] Yes, I agree with you that we are not the same idea. The concept of "caring" in the way you suggest it - that is, interspecies, where a man takes care of a dog, cat, or other pet, I find it inappropriate to compare the "care" of one's offspring, his children.
In the sense of animal "species", our parental care is based on good in the higher sense, towards a self-improvement, growth of our race.
What, on the other hand, seems more than visible to us not for other animals.
What makes us think that a species alien to us can move on to help our growth as the dominant organisms of a planet to their alien, with a limited knowledge about us-as far as we know it-now?
I find thinking that the help of Shapers and the other EIs against us is passionate and without a second "istance" a big deal.
It is surely possible to be a dying race - but in that case, their legacy would not be an intricate hidden behind a mystery. It would be clear, it would be simple, just because - in this example - MUST be remembered.
I still do not find it absolutely correct to propose weapons projects as "legacy" if an extinct alien society wants to pass on its culture - since the weapons created by Oliver Lynton-Wolfe have been "dreamed" by Roland Jarvis, offered by the Shapers.
2] [...]Don't we all have the urge to prove our worth?[...]
We must be absolutely, but not through an alien medium, of which we totally ignore the operation and that we can not deal with the cause of the cause.
Anyone can use Google to diagnose her disease symptoms online. Only a graduate in medicine can interpret what signs and symptoms actually mean.
Using something without knowing the purpose of creating, effects, side effects and any other details that makes sense about that is, in my opinion, a big mistake.
An incorrect forcing.
[...]"However, since when have the Shapers influenced us? I think the Shapers can be compared to 2001 A Space Odyssey and the monolith. Here, a far more advanced alien civilization shaped humans to a certain extent. What if what we consider freedom and human is actually "shaped behavior?_ "[...]
Nice point. But if Shapers are a breed of organisms that "shapes" human evolution from its dawn, then they can not coexist in an example that wants them as an extinct race.
If they had the time and resources to guide us this way, they could have diverted them into their own safeguards.
[...]Would we stagnate as a species?[...]
You are right, it is absolutely possible.
But this is a risk we have to risk running. We must be able to become better, more evolved, without external intrusion. Otherwise, it will only be an evolution that is empty, pushed, not solid.
3] [...]So in the end, perhaps there is no correct choice.[...]
I think I can say: exactly. And this is the only answer we can say is right.
We do not have any kind of information. No certainty. Only what they make us read, and it is not verifiable.
We have to trust it. Or dig deeper.
Me and you, here, I'm telling you we started digging. Little, but perhaps we have raised doubts that others will find significant.